Help make April 15th just another day
I was excited this election season to see Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul make a small splash about the Fair Tax bill sitting in Congress. If you take the time to learn about the bill, it is hard not to see it's advantages over our current, broken, and unfair system of taxation.
Yes, I know that this is a technology site. But having a more fair tax system would allow all of us to invest in more tech stuff and companies would have the freedom to develop even better technologies than we already have today!
Please visit the Americans for Fair Tax web site and take the time to study and learn about this proposal and then write your congressman or woman and senators to encourage their support of this important proposal. Better yet, buy the Fair Tax Book , read it and pass it on to friends and family. You will be amazed at how simple and fair the plan really is.
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The only fair tax is no tax.
I HAVE read the UnFair Tax Book
Not only have I read the book, but I've discussed these questions with the person who runs the website pushing the Unfair Tax. The national sales tax is NOT fair. It is a bad idea. It will make government MORE powerful. You need to think about all the ways government will manipulate the national sales tax. And you need to realize there are many, many savers, primarily Roth IRA holders, who will get taxed twice by the new system.
Read your posts, guys. You are attacking me instead of my points. I'd bet dollars to donuts you haven't researched this anywhere close to as much as I have.
Not a tax site
Yes, I have read and talked about this proposal with ex-IRS officials, accountants, tax preparers and read the pros and cons from as many sources as I can find. The facts are this:
1. Only people reporting income pay income taxes in the U.S. currently
2. Non-citizens who utilize our schools, hospitals, roads, and other infrastructure DO NOT contribute to the costs of these services.
3. I wish I could find the article I read about 10 years ago or so, but a study was done (I think it was the Dallas newspaper) where 10 different tax preparers and accountants were given a family of four's tax information for that calendar year. The result was 10 completely different bottom lines because of the interpretation of the bloated and unfair current tax code. If not even 2 of 10 tax preparers can agree on how to fill out an IRS form, how can the average Joe expect too?
4. In our current system, double and triple taxation occurs all the time....capital gains taxes, death taxes, etc.
5. The Fair Tax levels the playing field. No more forms, no more off-shore accounts, no more dodging and weaving by anyone. If you buy something, you pay a tax that is as plain as the nose on my face (and it's a pretty big nose). Your tax is the same as my tax. Those who consume more, pay more. Those who save and consume less, pay less. And for the less fortunate in our society, a provision is built-in that refunds the cost of the tax on food and other necessities.
6. Speaking of refunds, what a sham and a shame that every year from January to May we hear about the "use your refund for this or that." The refund keeps uninformed Americans thinking that they are getting back a bonus at the end of the year. Yikes! And society perpetuates this myth by making it such a festival. Makes me sick.
Read the book again, my friend. And keep your mind open while doing so. Also, read the follow-up book that addresses all the misconceptions about the bill.
You made it a Tax Site
Rick, Your tax system objectives: 1: Simple, 2: Fair. There is nothing inherent in the Income Tax system that can't be made simple and fair. Every dollar spent was once a dollar of income.
Conversely, there is nothing in the Fair Tax system that prevents Congress from evolving it to complicated and unfair. Fact is, a vast majority of voters thinks the current system is fair and simple enough. Every attempted simplification fails. Reason? Congress uses taxes to raise funds, but also for "social engineering", and to control the economy. Congress will never give this up.
The so-called Fair Tax system will lead to a *more* complicated tax system, as it gives Congress one more way to extract money from citizens. Ultimately, I predict the "fair tax" will evolve to a Europe-like Value Added Tax.
You will not prevent a return of income taxes until you amend the U.S. Constitution. That takes 3/4 of states to ratify the amendment. Yes, it's *possible* but extremely unlikely. To pass a "fair tax" before ratification would be foolish.
If you want another Boston Tea Party, I suggest you amend the Constitution to limit all government spending to some maximum percentage of the gross national product. No exceptions, not even war.
We are finding common ground...
I totally agree that spending has to be limited. We cannot and should not become one giant assisted living center.
As for the majority of people thinking our current system is fair and simple enough...I saw "ha ha". The majority of people are clueless on how to read their own paycheck! They are clueless that the refund they get every spring is through their own ignorance and is NOT a government gift, but their very own money they worked hard for through the year. And many are not smart enough to even read a tax form or instruction manual let alone make a judgment on its simplicity or fairness. If you think otherwise, then you are a much bigger optimist than I.
Yes, the government does use the tax system to control votes and the population...my very reason for supporting the Fair Tax. That's where my optimism kicks in...I think that Americans are smart enough to see that when they can bring home every penny they earn, they will be much more vigilant about how they separate with those monies. Now, those monies disappear before they even see them and it is truly a case of out-of-site-out-of-mind.
We are much closer in our philosophies than you realize, my friend.
Yes, the objective is the same
If you think people are not smart enough to read a tax instruction booklet, you shouldn't think they are smart enough to see the subtle impact of sales taxes on their well being. For example, very few people can say what part of the cost of gasoline is taxes. When they complain about high gas prices, they point to oil companies, not taxes.
Have you ever been to Europe? I assume not, otherwise you would not be so enthusiastic about letting the feds have a sales tax. The current proposal has absolutely no checks on future modifications of the "fair tax" to make it absolutely oppressive. That would take a Constitutional amendment.
Congress *will* buy votes by using sales tax exemptions, rebates, higher rates for things "rich" people buy, and lower rates for things "poor" people buy. Once you have rebates, exemptions and variable rates, you need enforcement so the "wrong" people don't use them. Enforcement will lead to tax forms, instruction booklets, and tax advisors - just like we have now. And, of course, the income tax will be back - initially to get at the really rich people. Then it will slowly trickle down to the rest of us, courtesy of inflation.
I suspect we have the same philosophy toward government spending. That's why I'm still commenting. When I first heard about the fair tax, I was enthusiastic. Thinking about the unchecked evolution of it changed my mind. Basically, you are not going to stop Congress from social engineering by trying to change collection methods.
Want to shock people with the taxes they pay? Instead of changing the whole tax system, simply get rid of payroll deductions and make them write a check every month, or better yet, pay in cash. Imagine the wide open eyes!!
The Very Fair Tax
The anti-Fair Tax writer clearly has not read the Fair Tax book, nor has any real facts. He and all of us would benefit greatly from this change in our system.It would put our earned money back into our own pockets to spend or not as we choose. That takes power away from those who run the show now. Of course they don't want the Fair Tax. They want to keep us dependent on the government for everything. The Fair Tax would make us more free to live our lives as we choose. That's why Washington is afraid of it and many of the general population have never heard of it.
Un-fair Tax
The so-called Fair Tax (National Sales Tax) will cause all savers' to be taxed twice, once when they earned it and once again when they spend it. Only non-savers should be in favor of this tax system.
In addition, you will find that proponents will not be getting rid of the Income Tax Constitutional Amendment before they pass the National Sales Tax. If the National Sales Tax is passed, we will have both an income tax and a sales tax. Won't that be fun?
Finally, anyone who thinks Congress won't be fiddling with the National Sales Tax rates to tax the "rich" more heavily is dreaming. This idea sounds good until you start thinking about the details. It's just not a good plan.
Get your tax facts correct
Wow, it's uninformed comments like this one that keep us mired in "politics as usual" in our country. The facts are that the income tax repeal is built-in to the law. One can't happen with the other. Don't let fear mongerers like this keep you from reading about and studying this monumentally country and life changing legislation.
Guys like this might be working for a political party because without an income tax to play class war fare with and hold people hostage with, the power goes back to the people. With the current, broken system, all the power resides in D.C.
Geez Rick - You really are naive
The "facts" are that the income tax is allowed by the 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. You cannot "repeal" the income tax with just the passage of a law. 75% of state legislatures must ratify any change to the Constitution. The chances of that happening are slim and none.
You are hoping that a law can be passed to stop implementing the income tax at the same time a national sales tax is passed. Even if this happened, it is the height of naivete to believe that future Congresses won't re-implement income taxes. Then we'll have both a national sales tax and an income tax. Real nice.
Further, when you say "one can't happen without the other" you don't know that do you? Because a bill has not yet been passed by either house of Congress. It could easily happen that income taxes become a part of whatever bill eventually might pass. You MUST repeal the 16th Amendment before passing a national sales tax, or I guarantee we will end up with more money in the hands of Washington.
If you want power back to the people, as you seem to, you will work for a Constitutional cap to the amount of money all government can spend - like maybe 15% of gross domestic product. All you are doing is changing how they take our money. The national sales tax you favor will ultimately allow them to take much more.
I agree
Limiting government spending is huge. But regarding the repeal of the 16th amendment, yes it can happen and will happen if American citizens know the truth about current, broken, and highly lopsided system and how raising revenues that treat everyone the same regardless of income, citizenship, or pedigree can be instituted instead.
Think Boston Tea Party. We need another one.
same here
I want it too. sadly, most people mistake it for the flat tax (blantently it isn't), & they think it's going to cost them more than the current tax "plan". Check out Neal Boortz's website & book on the subject.
fairtax
I wont the fairtax NOW!!!! and cut spending
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